Re: [-empyre-] Re: Poetics of DNA II



Two points which end up almost being semantic, but the semantic is part of the problem. The acids in the systems that form DNA/RNA statistically only pair with certain other acids. They are thus not a code whose signifiers have no essential relation to their signified. It is a cipher in the sense that its pairing are regular. But the larger question is why we see this process as "coding" at all and why we see "traits "however we may define them (and suggest in popular renditions they are almost always defined extraordinarily broadly and in relation to those things humans at this point in history understand as "traits") as the result.

I have noticed in this discussion that there are multiple definitions for the word "code." That's part of the problem. A code is not a code is not a code. Computer scientists for example can insist that what they mean by code is fairly accurate, but on can never totally remove their code from the larger corral of meanings that constitute "code." It always imports something else into the discussion.

And yes there is a relation between signifier and signified in DNA which is why it isn't a code or a language or anything else linguistic.
On Oct 5, 2007, at 9:35 PM, Jim Andrews wrote:



I identify the DNA/gene as non-arbitrary and fixed only in the
limited sense that unlike language where there is no intrinsic
relation between signifier and signified, DNA at least has the
statistically significant tendency for its acids to pair only with
certain other acids.  This is not to say that what parts of DNA or
chromosomes may function as a gene is not flexible, nor widely
variant, nor that there is not a wide range of alternatives always
changing in the biosphere.

I speak of determinism only on the molecular level.  I would suggest
that everything else is quite a complex moving open system.

There can be no such thing as empiricism as long as language is
involved in any stage or human observers intercede in measurements
that are made with tools requiring interpretation.  Social sciences
are particularly problematic in this regard since they often envision
issues of language and representation as countable incidents based on
protocols that do not take the vagaries of representation itself into
account.  Of course, not all of them do this, but enough.

In so far as anyone ever conceived of DNA as a code, it was always
already paradigmatic, since Shroedinger referred to some agency as
that before DNA's structure was even discerned (an dby someone who
had read Schroedinger).  Calling DNA a code certainly does not define
how it functions, but the paradigm does condition how we think about
DNA--and how some scientists approached it--i.e. "decoding."  DNA is
not a code.  It is a chemical.  If we need an analogy, cipher is the
better one.

I don't really understand, Judith. One could say of a RAM transistor in a
computer that "It isn't a 0 or a 1; it's a transistor that doesn't hold an
electric charge or does hold an electric charge. We interpret the state as
meaning 0 or 1. Transistors have physical states. They do not form a code."


But, at least in this case, they do indeed form a code--were designed to do
so, actually.


Now, it would be silly to suggest that the same is true of DNA--it would be
tantamount to supposing 'intelligent design', which is surely wrong- headed.


But if we are able to show that a certain DNA sequence, given the
appropriate context, gives rise to a fixed trait, then isn't there really a
relation between the signifier (the DNA sequence) and the signified (the
trait)?


Apologies, I am totally dumb about molecular biology.

ja??
http://vispo.com


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